Really Angry At Fan Club!!!!! Post at Cher.com

[RomanKing82]

I think that Jonathon guy is a perfect example of an "OBSSESED" and "DANGEROUS" fan. I also think he has nothing to do with the fan club. I think he is "PRETENDING" to work on behave of the fan club, to get a hold of a persons personal information. Which is ILLEGAL, and violates FEDERAL LAW.

It's all part of a "CONVIDENCE" game. Which is the oldest trick in the book. He earns your trust, throws you a few convincing lines, that would make people think that "ONLY A PERSON THAT KNOWS" would have such information. And people who are eager to be part of the fan club, send monies to him.

I think tha's why some people are having so much problems with the fan club. And if it's true that this person is part of the FAN CLUB. It's even more dangerous.

This person could be stealing money from the fan club, and the identities of some of its members.

I dont' know about you, but this all sounds too eerily similar to what happened to Selena.

The fan club president stealing money from the fan club. Fans agree at the fan club because they send money and recieve nothing. THe manipulation, and the eventual death of Selena because of that by the hands of the Fan Club president. It's too freaky.

But, i think is safe to say that Cher doesnt have "Direct" contact with the fan club. Only on certain occations.

Some body needs to take LEGAL ACTION against this invidual quickly, before it scales into a bigger problem

[Susanelizabeth28]

Jonathan actually is in with the fan club, which actually makes him more dangerous. There are still people that are not aware of the fan club and their behavior. Since they use the wording "official" which indicates that Cher approves of them, it give the ususpecting fan a false sense of security.
Jonathan has tried to pump people for personal information and because some blindly trusted the Official Cher Fan Club I wonder just how much info some people gave him.
It's common knowledge by now that many of the tickets, posters, and other promotional items given to the club to distribute to the fans never made it to many of the fans.
We know for a fact that some FAN CLUB tickets were purchased from scalpers for thousands of dollars. Tickets actually handed out by the club are not done so until the day of the concert, so these tickets must have gone from the clubs hands to the scalpers.
Jonathan alone has not made the people that run the club bad. None of them have shown any trustworthiness. Let's just say he certainly hasn't helped an already pathetic situation.
Susan

[Jan]

So many ppl have emailed me and called me privately since the cher.com thread on this re emerged..I unfortunately can't post this one and that one's dilemmas if others are afraid to..it's gotta come from them...sorry guys..been there done that ...And for the record it's a LOT more than the lithos guys..a LOT..I've heard stories and Pam when she was here as well has heard stories..more than we ever wanted to know..and yes Jonathan is involved w/the fan club..but not even the culprit in some ways..not defending his actions of what others have told me by any means..I personally have not had problem w/him nor John like what others have told me..so if u have it has to come from u..I know sev ppl have told me they have broker receipts (in the thousands yet)only to then rec'v the tkts that read Fan club..scary..mega..if u got em though guys..SCAN ur receipt and the ticket..u don't have to show ur name..I know many of u were afraid too..but what for? Tour is over..as for the items ppl mentioned..I hear ya..I know..Sue knows..Pam knew..it's a shame..Cher in regards to the fan club is obviously not involved.. Shame..looks like those who don't kiss butt to this club will be broke to be if Cher plays the Wynn or tours again but at least we got our pride.. as Son said.."Then Laugh at Me"...He didn't care what ppl think nor do we..Just not impressed..I see what my friends who follow OTHER artists get..Man it's sad what Cher's fans get..and to those overseas and USA who told me how they sent membership monies and got squat..u know not to rejoin that's all I can say..We sympathize.Cher deserves better ..as do her fans! Just know if u know deep down her club sucks if u keep sending monies cos of being afraid that's insane..if no mbrs there is no club..just a thought

[Ci]

Does anyone know the history of this club? When they came about,? how long they have been "Official". The goings on truely disturbing, illegal, shameful. Why would CHER want to attach her name as "Official" to this group?

And what about Liz Rosenberg and her disconnect? to CHER's following-- when it appears that she is very active with Madonna.

I find this topic ('s) so interesting.

BTW, I'm now registered(was c1)

[Jan]

Congrats on being registered! Obviously as u see by the OVER 500 views on this post many find it interesting yet MANY are afraid to tell their own stories and experiences and or feel nothing was done after Pam's previous attempts to help change things so nothing is getting done..as far as Liz..I dunno the answer to that one..I am a huge Madonna fan (of her earlier stuff more though)but not in her fan club but many of my friends are and say it's wonderful..they even told me sometimes her newsletters have a message from Liz? True? Interesting..Madonna seems extremely "hands on her business" though if u know what I mean..doesn't she have her own like production company? Sorry I am a fan of her earlier music but don't know much of Madonna's like history..Have seen Madonna several times in concert..one was bad(NOT the recent tour but the one before that..ppl were very disappointed) ..the others were just totally beyond amazing..I even saw her back in the 80s at a local LI club called Escapes when she wore the black rubber bracelets and dressed so 80s ..dancing to Phy Attractiion and Holiday:) ahh the GOOD Madonna days!!!! OK I'm old.. LOL..Anyways..not 100% sure how long Cher's Off'l club is..I think late 80s and or since L Hurts tour maybe? not 100% sure..but been a long time..wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy longer than since Believe I know..None of us know why Cher would have her name attached..I agree w/a post Dave once did and I know Sue agreed too..a "company" would be better I think to run a club for a star of her statute..I think that way things would all be done more fairly and most of all ppl would all be treated w/respect..I mean even when the club now has a so called "contest" how is it REALLY run? Anyone know? Gabrielle even posted on her www.cherstyle.com website how she herself saw one of the fan club girls go back w/a relative of hers at the time Gabrielle won her contest meet n greet w/Cher yet I remember Pam once cut and pasted the fan club rules that NO fan club "personnel" were allowed to be in the contest? ..but that's just one of a kabillion..and how is it ppl I know out of my own state see say Jonathan and the same ppl always up front row center..how come say ppl in the fan club sat say 5th row while others ALWAYS were front and center..? Like HOW is it run ..got me? lol..I just don't see how ppl can pay a membership when they know ppl are doing wrong..Ppl have fowarded myself and Pam stuff in writing they got from the fan club re: this and that and some stuff really just incredible..Ppl also have copies of broker receipts in the thousands and yet all to rec'v their tickets that read FAN CLUB on it..I dunno....how come if like 6 or 7 so called fan club personnel run the so called off'l fan club u ONLY hear about jonathan and or john (who honestly I and others feel are not the culprit) but we could be wrong..Why is it that Liz is so active in Madonna's and NOT Cher's? Shame..All I see, many countless diehard fans I have met at Cher's convention, Cher's tours all over the globe and Susan sees and what Pam and countless other fans who give up see (even Ward Lamb who I adore posted on the cher.com forum I see..he only wrote various linear notes for some of Cher's cds and has had Goldmine and various articles published re: Cher!!!!) is that noone seems to care and it's a darn shame..but as u see over and over from the # of VIEWS this thread gets ppl are interested but either afraid to post and or unfortunately just have given up ! Sad..Especially w/such a mega superstar like CHER! Don't her fans deserve better ..doesn't a star of her statute deserve better? I for one and I know Pam for one and I know Sue for one sure think so!

[Ci]

Thanks Jan. And a 'Wow'! That ticket situation not only wrong, but certainly illegal. Everyone ought to just pull out, like you said no member's no club! simple.

I'm remembering seeing Cher's spot on Sally Jessie years ago, probably 1991 and a very loud group in the audience, Cher called one by name: Dennis? And the hoot and holler for Cher's sister Georgeanne, she looked really embarrassed by the adulation. Lordy.

I think, being a simple bystander here (and hearing your take and from Susan and Pam, Ward Lamb) it's almost as if this group decided to "stick it" to Cher's fans after all the complaints before and after the fraudulence.... (?)

No Members=No Fan Club!

[Susanelizabeth28]

Hi Ci, Glad to see you got the registration thing sorted out. There are several who registered and had trouble with logging in for the first while.

Everyone ought to just pull out, like you said no member's no club! simple.

You have a good point, there. The only thing being that they have given "special treatment to" aka "shared the wealth" with a few of there friends who could be bought in order to get them to speak out on the joys of being a member. This then gives false hope to those desperate for a chance at winning a meet and greet or at getting good tickets. That has been just enough to help keep their dirty little secrets covered up.
Years ago I sent in my annual membership dues (before I realized the scope of their underhandedness) and John and Jonathan called me and said since (at the time) I was moderating Cher.com's board they wanted to comp my membership. I said "no thanks" that I would rather pay and had sent my money already. They said no we are comping it and they returned my money. Well you guessed it, it was their attempted to control me and tell me what to do. Jonathan continuously joked that "I wasn't really a member" so he wasn't sure if I was eligible for any perks, etc. They are only friendly toward those they control. Because the people they control ignore their sleazy ways.
Cher definitely deserves an honest and upstanding club. They represent much of what she has stated she dislikes. The problem is, whoever is "watching over the club" is letting them get away with this crap. That is unnerving. What else are they letting people get away with, and why?
Susan

[Jan]

WOW wonder if I met u Ci..I too was at that taping with one of my Cher friends that came into NY for that show..Yes Dennis now works for the fan club as well..Personally I never had problem with him but he does work for them as well yes....and Yea sue me and others and I know Pam when she was here totally feel your pain but as long as ppl feel they have join this fan club cos ppl told them they otherwise don't represent Cher and or are "afraid" as they say..nothing will get done..shame and sad! Very!

[Ci]

What a corrupt mess: is CHER's official fan club. BUT we have all done a very good job exposing it.


OT:

Susan: I had trouble logging in when I attempted to type in the key-password. Almost gave up. Then I used the 'link' in the e-mail that was sent and it let me right in.

Jan: For SJR show I was out in TV land-- not at the taping. But for some reason I remember the fan club being in the audience and the antics, geez poor Georgeanne, she seemed uncomfortable...lol.

[Jan]

It's actually been exposed for even long before Pam tried to turn things around..Like Dann and others mentioned the o'l CHERTALK website had zillions of threads on why can't the offical fan club be better..Even then nothing got done..ppl gave up..But again as long as ppl are afraid and or don't wanna be bothered changing stuff nothing gets done..Shame..I just personally feel her fans deserve better!

[Susanelizabeth28]

jan said:

It's actually been exposed for even long before Pam tried to turn things around..Like Dann and others mentioned the o'l CHERTALK website had zillions of threads on why can't the offical fan club be better..Even then nothing got done..ppl gave up..But again as long as ppl are afraid and or don't wanna be bothered changing stuff nothing gets done..Shame..I just personally feel her fans deserve better!

And Jan, I wish I had saved all the threads, and emails I received asking about the poor quality of the official cher fan club when I moderated at Cher.com. It was definitely a "frequently asked question".
Susan

[mucher1]

Ci asked how old the fan club is. Well, their first newsletter (V1N1) came out in 1998.

News items then included: Cher is now managed by Brillstein-Grey & also represented by Toni Howard and Risa Shapiro at ICM. New CD is due for mid-April release (tracks will include "Believe" and "All or Nothing"). Cher will head off to Tuscany in July to star in "Tea with Mussolini". V1N2(a): S&C get their star on Hollywood Walk of Fame. Fan club staff gets up close and personal with Cher at hotel after taping of Rosie Show. "Sonny & Me" was number one show of the evening it aired, beating the season finale of BH 90210. "Believe" is tentative title of new CD, to be released in Europe only (fan club members will get a $2 discount at E.Q.S. Music). Book by Cher based on first time experiences will be out in November. There's talk about a movie titled "The Breaker" about a mother and daughter con team. Cher spends weekend in June on CCFA event in Austin, TX. V1N2(b): Cher reunited with Bill Sammeth, landing her the prestitious "gig" of singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl. Cher finds new puppy in Italy. "Believe" was #1 single in 12 European countries, selling over 3.5 million copies and spending 7 weeks in the UK chart.

And a few highlights from 1999 and 2000. V2N1(a): Lots of promotion for "Believe". The fan club is now on the Web (i.e. has an e-mail address). Suggestions and comments are welcome. Cher has an official website, including a "Cher Talk" section where you can leave messages for Cher and other Cher fans. V2N1(b): "Believe" is Cher's biggest hit. Summer tour is announced (but on such short notice that no tickets will be allocated to fan club members). Chastity plans to drop in on the "Cher Talk" chat rooms. V2N3(a): "Tall Pony Productions" and HBO are credited for giving the fan club 125 tickets to give out to members. Plug for the "Cher Convention 2000" in Chicago. V2N3(b): Final show in Philadelphia is cancelled. Cher performs at gala for Clinton (and relays her impression of the President to the writer). Cher on Larry King. Cher wins a Grammy. Two-page Q&A (with the answers in Cher's handwriting). Report from the Cher convention by Gary Reeves.

The newsletter wasn't too bad, although a bit skimpy, considering that the club was run by seven individuals. Also, when you put out only a few issues a year, less emphasis on news and more on solid background articles (and other stuff) would have seemed like a good idea to me.

One of the founders once told me (in rather general terms) how the club had come about. I have kept her letters, but don't remember where, so this is from memory. It seems that they were a group of east coast fans who had attended a lot of Cher concerts and events over the years in that area. Their tenacity and enthusiasm had even earned them a nickname by Cher and her people. By the late 90's there were no other fan clubs around, and they were allowed to fill the gap...

-Mark

[mucher1]

My first impressions of the fan club were relatively good. I had been awarded a complimentary membership, and they kept sending me newsletters for a couple of years. Cheryl and Karen also seemed very nice. But everything went wrong when I rejoined in late 2002 and tried to buy a Miami lithograph from the club. Cher's management knows the details. I wasn't aware of many of the other problems that have been addressed in this thread by Jan and Susan. I was kind of betrayed by Jonathan myself, but his apparent attempts to pump people for SS#'s and other personal information surprise me. That and the ticket business sound very serious indeed and can hopefully be documented. Jan is right: Cher and her fans deserve better.

I suppose that many of you know the (current) postal addresses of Cher's management team, but here they are, just in case:

RDWM Services (UK) Ltd
37 Limerston Street
London SW10 0BQ
England

Lindsay Scott Management
8899 Beverly Boulevard, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90048
USA

-Mark

[Jan]

Hey Mark!

Yeah in the beginning I never had problem w/the club either..I paid the one time membership and then didn't really have to pay thereafter I referred MANY of my friends and other fans to the fan club.at 1st all was good..now personally I myself never had problem really w/ANY of the guys in the club..I don't personally think they're the culprit others disagree and say Jonathan I honestly don't think he is..nor do I think John is I know many disagree..I honestly don't know..I do know others that had problems..oh god and more than u could imagine Mark..guess u didn't realize Pam's plight in what she tried and started..anyways..from that nothing was done..all Cher's camp did was return the complaints from all the long time diehards back to the fan club..so we honestly feel they just do not care? Noone knows why..All I know is her fans deserve better..but like I said many have just unfortunately given up after Pam's attempt and or feel that her camp just does NOT care and then u got some that are just afraid..Shame a fan has to be afraid and not voice their feelings..only privately..so looks like lost cause..Shame..Cher and her fans really and honestly deserve better! me and others just don't get how Madonna's could be run so smoothly and Cher's not w/the same publicist? Strange...Hey my sympathies to the Madonna diehards out there..I like her a lot too and hope she has a speedy recovery! PS: The lithos were minor compared to all else we have heard over the years..trust me..that's minimal..but ppl have to tell their OWN Plights..we just can't do it for them anymore..Guess me and Sue are mega east coast! LOL..What's on our chest is on our tongue...outspoken ...gee ..just like our fellow Taurus.....C H E R ) I always think back to what Pam told me after CHER interviewed w/Dr Phils wife..how she believes in MORALS..when asked what she looks for in a man/relationship! Interesting that Pam noted MORALS was #2 on her list! Pam compared it to her own FAN CLUB! LOL..Interesting note I thought! LOL

[Susanelizabeth28]

Jan,
They are ALL the problem. None of the lot has ever done anything to make it an above board group.
The girls have caused problems for some of the people (and who knows what they are pulling behind the scenes) but the guys have done their fair share as underhanded members as well. Look who the ebayer of the club lithographs was: Torello. Look who has been very nasty to many people and went under false names at Cher.com saying mean things about many posters and trying to get things started: Jonathan. Look who tried to get private information from members and harrassed them at home on the phone: Jonathan. Look who Pam talked to for hours on several occasions and they went running causing her problems: John Torello and Jonathan. Look who brought Jonathan into all this: John Torello.
And yes, when all our complaints were taken and handed directly to the fan club, INCLUDING OUR CELL NUMBERS! WHO handed them over? THAT person or persons should have looked at it right then and there and realized this problem goes WAY beyond a lazy fan club. That person should have had the smarts to look at it and think "Oh my...Illegal activity, let me talk to the boss on this one." No, they were too busy trying to sweep it aside for one reason or another.
I understand the need to protect Cher from crap and not bother her with "minor stuff" but how about "excuse me miss, I know your your busy but it appears your fan club has completely run amouk and is making our whole operation look shady and questionable, what do you want done about it?" HELLO!?!
Susan

[Jan]

Oh no I know others have had problems w/the guys Sue believe me..bigtime..I just meant for me personally..but wow u just reminded me of something I and I bet Pam didn't even think of..all the nice ppl and it was a LOT who gave us the ok to use their emails and ph #'s on there..eek..that's right..that was mega overlooked! All sad! Really is..and we'll never understand WHY:( SHAME! Really is..this is Cher..a MEGA Star..it's crazy!

[Megpassingthrough]

WOW! This explains a lot. I always thought it was just me now suddenly things make sense.
Nice site BTW
Meg

[Jan]

Ur one of many who said that Meg! Hey welcome aboard! Sue does an amazing job on this site..and u gotta check all the wonderful photos she has set up too! We hope to see u more!

[erickholland]

Welcome Meg! I'm Erick, 20 years old, and I live in Holland. Welcome to the family. It's A LOT of fun here, and everybody just ROCKS. Have fun!

[Jan]

Sue ..did u notice this thread not even up a full month yet and already has almost 900 views more than any other thread on cherconnection? Good job my friend! Like I said ppl afraid to post or have given up but it obviously brought a lot of attention!

[mucher1]

Hi Jan,

I only became (vaguely) aware of any coordinated efforts to deal with the fan club problems when Jonathan mentioned a "smear campaign" in one of his e-mails. He was quite upset with me because someone had dug up something I once posted about the fan club in a public forum. That was unexpected as no one had approached me for an updated opinion. In the meantime, I had gained access to their website (after 6 months), Jonathan seemed friendly and effective, and they seemed to take my criticism seriously, so I imagined that things were improving quite a bit. Heck, I even thought I was going to buy a Miami lithograph. Live and learn, I guess...

-Mark

PS: Not sure if you got my e-mail(s), Susan, but I am sure about the management addresses. At least they were current a few months ago.

[mucher1]

Two weeks ago, the fan club offered me a free 13-month membership. I sort of declined. I'm taking the liberty of attaching the content of both e-mails below.

-Mark

[My reply]

Dear fan club,

I'm not entirely sure what to make of your offer of complimentary membership. Why now? Where was the empathy when it was really needed? I seem to recall having a lithograph order cancelled last year, due to apparent mail pilfering, and no one offered me as much as a comforting remark back then. Despite my loss of $75, and a chance to obtain a very precious Cher item, there wasn't the slightest attempt to soften the blow. While I waited for the fan club's "decision", my access to their website was ended without notice. In the following weeks, one of the club presidents sold lithographs for hundreds of dollars each on eBay - allegedly on behalf of family and friends. I have heard stories from (several) other fans and former members that seem to show a pattern of corruption, greed, nepotism, and lack of competence among the people who run the fan club.

If you're an entirely new group of people cleaning up after the old group of people, you have my sympathy and support, and I'd be more than happy to accept your kind offer. However, if you're basically the same group of people as before, I'm not interested. Which are you?

Sincerely,

Mark Ulrik

[Their offer]

Dear Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to contact the Official Cher Fan Club.

We are very sorry for any inconvenience that you received during your experience with the Official Cher Fan Club. Cher appreciates the support of her fans and so do we. Therefore as a gesture of goodwill, we are extending a complimentary 13-month online membership to you. This will give you complete access to our members' site, including the ability to participate in our promotional offers and special events. We hope this courtesy demonstrates our commitment to you, as a long-time Cher fan!

We ask that you respond to this email with your desired username and password. At such time, we will acivate your membership within 24 hours of receipt of the email.

You are a valued member and we want you to know that we appreciate your support. Our goal is to provide World Class service and we hope that we have provided you with that today.

Best Regards,
CherFanClub.com Support Team

[Susanelizabeth28]

Mark,
First of all Mark, excellent letter!
Secondly, can I just say this does not suprise me at all! They tried to buy me with a complimentary membership too. During that time I could only access the club sometimes (Jonathan admitted once that he could turn membership access on and off at will - He bragged this of course when he thought he owned me with a complimentary membership). The club tried to call our complaint letters a "smear campaign", but a "smear campaign" is not made up of facts as our letters were. None of us had any reason to "smear" anyone. We stated facts and wanted the factual problems fixed.
In the professional world you would not find a personal letter signed by a phantom support team. What did they do? Get together and write that personal response to you during half - time? Why didn't one of them half the courage to sign their name? Why do they always hide? By not signing their name NONE of them are really taking responsibility for running the club. Shouldn't we know who the people are running Cher's club? It's not like we need home addresses. There is a "PO Box" and a "team" If I got a solicitation with the same set up in the mail I would not respond.
Again Mark, excellent letter!
Susan
P.S. Yes I did get your email, Thanks! Let me know if you got my response!

[mucher1]

Hi Susan,

Thanks for the kind words! If they want to bribe us, they'll have to try harder. I'm not sure how to explain the timing of the offer; either they saw my postings in this forum, or an e-mail to the London office was forwarded. Your point about unsigned messages is excellent. They seem to use the same template for everything; even when my lithograph order was cancelled, they closed with that ridiculous "World Class service" remark.

They're nothing if not hypocritical. Months after the incident, Jonathan "apologized" to me on behalf of the postal services. Now, how can you (sincerely) apologize on behalf of a group of people you have nothing to do with? Instead he might have had the decency to apologize on behalf of himself and the fan club for treating me the way they did.

-Mark

[Jan]

Interesting Mark...And well said Sue it was far from a so called Smear campaign they were legit complaints w/everyone's emails and cell #'s..we wanted things changed or at least a legit response..not a "Q and A" type thing by Jonathan which then lead to ppl who support them calling us trolls..if it was not for one (name unmentioned)person's threat we hear to call their attorney that crap would have all been left up on their so called site..and many in Cher's camp told us Cher DIRECT does not deal w/her fan club..kinda unfortunate I agree..I wish she did though..then maybe things would be different..I still love how Pam quoted Ms Cher in her Dr Phil interview about the importance of Morals to her..interesting..Back in the day I referred MANY to that fan club and look how I was treated..I am unfortunately one of Many though..Ppl would say god if they treat u like that who referred many how would they treat others? I have no answer I really don't ..and again everyone's story different..My ordeal was NOT w/any of the guys..but again everyone's story/plight w/them is different..I do remember way back how dissatified Jonathan was w/the fan club before he worked for them..he got his package when Frank and I were with him..the pic was like crumbled and he barely got anything! LOL..I dunno just upsetting when u see what OTHER artists and fans get w/other fan clubs..Shame.. PS: Mark Sue has the addy of the mgt but did no good all they did was return complaints just back to the club..Pam and I had been told we were banned anyways from another source (not club though) ..so don't really care..They wanna treat longtime fans like this who love and Support Cher so..I have no answer I just don't

[ReachTheStars]

Yeah..I miss our WARRIOR...Pam...Man, she rocked in her beliefs...she was the kind of friend you'd go to battle with and knew she'd "watch your back" and you hers...just a given...we tried Janet...long, long ago..and it got us nowhere but heartache honey...not a d**n thing ever became of any of it..but true heartache.

Di

[Jan]

Ditto Di..me and Susan feel same..Hey miss ya buddy!..I know Pam is looking down and going..God Cher..remember what u said MORALS MORALS LOL ..u know that's what me and other DON'T get (cos MANY MANY emailed and called me in private who've "given up"..anyways..that's what we all don't get..Cher ROCKED and still ROCKS in HER Beliefs just like us and Pam..that's why noone gets this at all? Odd..

[erickholland]

Maybe this is a little off the subject; but I've read so many things about Pam. Unfortunately, I haven't been fortunate enough to chat with her/meet her, but from all the stories I've heard I know that she must have been a wonderful person!

[Susanelizabeth28]

I think I speak for all of us when I say yes she was. She was smart, honest and had a great sense of humour. She was all for doing the right thing in a situation. Definitely a cool person.

[Jan]

Yeah u would have adored her Erick..Tim has copies of her collection and may upload it and add into his tribute